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Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:38:00 - [1] So: Less grid than a Megathron but fractionally more CPU. Only 5m/s faster than a Megathron, but with the mass of a Tempest. 8/5/6 slot layout. 5% per level large hybrid damage bonus and 7.5% per level armour rep efficiency bonus. Discuss. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:55:00 - [2] Originally by: Rhuu Originally by: Grimpak cpu wise? yeah think so. it has 590cpu base according to the stats. grid wise? might be tight. 15250 grid base. Given the lower ammount of lows and the repair bonus, would a double repper setup be overkill? If you don't fit two how will you ever get to make proper use of that wonderful rep bonus? Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Patch86 Dissapointed that it and the Rokh don't havea portrait yet. That concept art has left me with no idea how this thing is going to look............ The concept art is a little odd. I look forward to seeing this in space. Though by the looks of it I'll not be abandoning my Megathron to fly it. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:12:00 - [4] Originally by: starship enginer but its gona take over the megathron for sniping in fleets pretty much, and most sniping setups unless u want to take out support with tracking No it won't. Only 50km max targetting range. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 15:11:25 I thought it was going to be fast, but 130? Thats really not fast at all. It is slower and weighs more than the Typhoon with those stats... Should be at least 160 imho if not more. I wasn't expecting it to have as high a base speed as the Typhoon, but I expected it to be lighter than it and I expected the base speed to be a little higher than it actually is. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/10/2006 15:16:01 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 15:11:25 I thought it was going to be fast, but 130? Thats really not fast at all. It is slower and weighs more than the Typhoon with those stats... Should be at least 160 imho if not more. Think of the Tempest 140. Think game balance. Im not even sure the Tempest have a chance against the Hyperion... we'll have to see. There have been so many changes now with hitpoints, hail penalties changing etc etc, so I dont know what to think yet. It's a fair point which was why I was rooting for an average base speed but some kind of mass/agility ship bonus so that it was quick on AB/MWD but comparitively slow without. Unfortunately we got slightly above average speed and this sucktastic rep bonus. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Denrace Ouch those stats kinda suck... This ship is just a poor mans megathron, but wait..itll be more expensive too! Needs more grid and to be faster at least. Caldari FTW though.. Den I certainly doubt I'll be abandoning the Megathron for it if it keeps those stats. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Zhull In general it is a decent blasterboat. Deadly at close range but very vulnerable to almost any form of EW. It was never supposed to be better than the Mega anyway. It was supposed to be a dedicated blasterboat, something the Megathron is not. Therefore I would expect it to be better at being a blasterboat than the Megathron. I would also expect the Megathron to completely outperform it using rails, which it does. Sadly the Megathron also looks like it will outperform it with blasters too. Originally by: Zhull Edit: The above poster is correct. It is a pity that now that passive tanking is getting a boost we get a boat that has bonus to active tanking. No kidding. It's a shame we get any kind of tanking bonus at all. What the ship needs is either an agility/mass bonus, an MWD speed/cap use bonus, or a falloff bonus like some of the smaller blasterboats get. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Grinkur Originally by: Alex Tremayne...I would also expect the Megathron to completely outperform it using rails...[/quote Don't be so sure. Actually, with a 50km base locking range and 3 Sensor booster II you can lock up to 204km. Lovely. Except you only get one more turret slot, less grid for fitting 425s, you've used over half your mids on sensor boosters leaving you only two for tracking computers, and you've lost the Megathron tracking bonus. No. The 'Thron will kick the Hyperion's arse with rails. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Ithildin Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points This I like. Maybe only 7.5% though, but either way this is a role appropiate bonus which is what the ship needs. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:26:00 - [11] Originally by: lofty29 The hyperion will be a good ship for taking on multiple opponents. Imagine built-in faction reps The only thing those 'built in faction reps' will be good for is repairing your passive plate tank faster between fights. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Ithildin I'm contemplating. What has the Hyperion going for it over the Megathron? 1. It does less damage since it has smaller drone bay. 2. It does less damage with it's turrets since it's lacking a tracking bonus. 3. It has to fit smaller guns if it wants to make use of it's repair bonus. 4. The repair bonus isn't very useful. Indeed. Unless that hidden agility modifier makes the Hyperion handle like a cruiser I won't be leaving the Megathron for the Hyperion. Especially not with the advent of the new inertial stabilisers, which are awesome. Originally by: Ithildin Why does it have to be like this? 1. The Hyperion and the Megathron are both crammed into the same battlefield role - blasters. 2. Apparently all tier 3 battleships need to have a tanking bonus. The combination of these two points is the real problem. The Mega is a perfectly servicable rail platform. A good one even. But due to the redundant tank bonus on the Hyperion, the Megathron is also the superior blaster platform. Originally by: Ithildin Dear developers, Tuxford, and TomB, one or both of these two has to go if you want to make the Hyperion useful without obsoleting the Megathron. Tuxford also stated he didn't like the Thorax style MWD bonus since it involved a powergrid, CPU, and capacitor heavy module to be used - armour repairers are even more powergrid, CPU, AND capacitor heavy! Please, Tux, TomB, listen to the man. He speaks sense. Originally by: Ithildin Minimal effort, minimal result * 7.5% Armour repair amount bonus changed to armour hit point bonus. Comment: This is a minimum effort. The Hyperion suffers from a small powergrid, and lock range enforced close range set up. With this change, it will heavily promote plate-tanking, which is much more powergrid efficient than repair tanking. Simple, straight forward, effective, and role appropriate. I like it. Originally by: Ithildin Altered role * Change one of the bonuses to Sensor Dampener Efficiency * Move a low slot to mid slot * Improve CPU Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change, it'll work well regardless. My suggestion is the repair bonus, since electronic warfare is damage prevention. Sensor dampener efficiency isn't terribly helpful on a ship who is still going to have to get to point blank range to open fire. OK, it might allow you to close the distance without being fired upon, but still, this one leaves me a little cold really. Originally by: Ithildin A different kind of drone boat * Change one of the bonuses to electronic warfare drone efficiency and MWD velocity. * Tripple drone bay Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change. This ship doesn't do damage with it's drones, it annoys the hell out of you with it's drones and kills you with it's guns. It's sort of a reversed Dominix. This has real potential to be very interesting. It would have to be very carefully tested though. It would also probably require a fair bit of work. Originally by: Ithildin Do something, the current Hyperion lacks a role. You got the patches on test server. It's a test server. Let us test for you. In the end, we are the ones who'll abuse or reject the ships, not you. I cannot agree with this statement enough. Originally by: Ithildin If you let us test things now, we won't have to call you names on the forums the coming two years until you change it (at which point the other half of the forum users call you names BECAUSE you change it). I must admit I worry that we'll see the Hyperion hit TQ unchanged and then have to wait years for it to be made in any way useful. Please don't let that happen Tux. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Gavax maybe if you all just stopped whining about what it has and what it doesn't have, and actually wait until you've flown it to try it theory can only get you so far =] from what i been told, there are a few errors on the stats of some of the new ships (bc and bs alike) and will be changed in due time, if you look at it - the kali patch doesn't seem to be THAT near, i mean seriously look at it, open the scanner - it still says under construction so what i say is, rather than going on about it as tho its gonna be so insanely cack, and the only way to justify its existence is to repackage and buy a mega - wait and see =] if you look at every thread everyone just has a boo about how there particular race is either getting nerfed or the ship isn't good enough, or the weapons aren't good enough are you all forgetting rigs? =] how about a nice fat rig on the hyperion ;] might make it insane could it not? We've been through this kind of thing before. If we don't moan, whinge and scream about it now, before it hits TQ, it will go through unchanged and won't be fixed for months or years. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor Why are you only listing its disadvantages and not the advantages such as speed and agility? You can do better than that... Speed and agility? It's an immense 5m/s faster than the Megathron and the same mass. It will have to have truly insane agility to make up for all the other problems the ship has. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim McGregor Surely its advantages are important if you want to discuss its role... so yeah, I want the dead dog in the house. :) And if speed and agility is worthless, then you should be arguing that the Tempest really sucks (which it does. ). Minmatar have been saying for along time that speed isnt very significant on the battleship level, and usually get the reply that "hey, look at the nanophoon!". So, how about a "hypoon"? :) Its like ive always said... people are fine with minmatar having crappy bonuses, but when they get one themselfs (repair amount bonus, speed, agility) they arent happy. Its very strange... The thing is, a speed advantage is a significant advantage, especially on a blasterboat. We're just saying the Hyperion doesn't have one. It's 10m/s slower than the Tempest with the same mass as both the Tempest and the Megathron. Admittedly we haven't been able to judge the ship's agility properly yet as that stat doesn't show on the show info page, but it would have to be noticable better than Typhoon agility in order to even come close to making up for the rest of the ship. And just to be clear, I'm not happy with the Minmatar having crappy bonuses either. I'm just more familiar with the Gallente boats and their roles and feel more comfortable fighting their case. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Butter Dog Its down to Agility. Mass is not important. Its the Agility which counts. Tempest is much more agile. You keep saying this, and you keep being wrong. both are important. Mass is the limiting factor on your maximum speed boost when using MWD/AB and is also a limiting factor on acceleration. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort

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